Seth: Okay. Hello everybody, this is Seth head of operations at QUOINE, calling you from Tokyo and I’m joined today, very excited, by Derek Capo who is CEO of TokenPay. Derek, welcome.
Derek: Thanks a lot for having us. I appreciate the opportunity. I’m calling you from [unintelligible 00:00:31]. Literally this is a very global [unintelligible 00:00:34].
Seth: First of all let’s us just get on [crosstalk]. I believe we have listen time scheduled for 1:00 PM GST [unintelligible 00:00:55] and we’re incredibly excited to welcome TPAY into the coin network. It’s going to be great. The wallets should be enabled a little bit later on this evening and we’ll, like I said, we’ll have TPAY trading against Ethereum, Bitcoin in cash from tomorrow. With that, first of all I’d like everyone to get a little bit of background about yourself. We’ve gotten to know each other pretty well over the past few weeks. I think, similar to myself, you came from a finance background, so tell us a little bit about your experience before you got involved in blockchain.
Derek: Yes. I actually like to start from the University so you can actually [unintelligible 00:01:42] I went to the University in Miami, a public University in Miami, born and raised in Miami. I studied finance and right out of college I got a job as a Hedge Fund analyst in Wall Street, but in Miami, so I guess the south of Wall Street. There I got exposed to Asia, learning about their cultures and [unintelligible 00:02:08] and stuff like that. I eventually got to quit my job and move to China.
I went over there to study Chinese for about a year. After that the financial crisis hit and [unintelligible 00:02:21] when obviously Bitcoin was born. I decided to start a business, so I started abroad business which is how foreigners go to China to study Chinese. During that time period is actually when I did my first Bitcoin transaction, it was around 2011, 2012. I was exposed to Bitcoin early on because it was showing in China. Actually it was all around [unintelligible 00:02:44] area which is [unintelligible 00:02:45] area university students are. I lived [unintelligible 00:02:48] college town part of Beijing. I was exposed to it there and obviously it was really interesting, but didn’t know if it was going to be legitimate or not [unintelligible 00:02:56] cool and I just didn’t really know. Then I kept on doing that business and then I did a robotics education business and then I eventually turned in to crypto to do TokenPay. We actually first started with a company called Ef’n, efn.com which was an algorithm that we based on to grade stocks like a credit score but for stocks. Then what ended up happening was I went to MIT to speak with a partner of ours called Ustocktrade.
While I was at the MIT conference, everybody was talking about blockchain and I was talking to a bunch of MBA students about it and they’re saying, yes that’s like the hot thing and it’s definitely real and started talking to a few professors and I was like, “Okay, this is something that looks really interesting” but I was still not comfortable yet to do the full go all-in. Then after that, I just spent hundreds of hours watching YouTube videos, reading whitepapers, understanding all of this stuff. That’s my analytical approach, I go in like a stock, I read an annual report, I go through the whole thing, I proxy statements, you name it, and then I did the same thing with this. Then my partner kept on pressuring me, “Hey we should do this, we should do this.” Then I said, “Okay fine, let’s go all in” and then we did.
We basically decided, “Let’s go for a TokenPay. He had a domain name, that’s an interesting story in itself. I know I’m going on about all its origin stuff, but I think it’s important that people understand how this all came together. Nothing is ever linear in life, it’s like this and circles sometimes. My partner was part owner called TokenPay many, many years ago and it was to have an anonymous debit card system, not crypto related at all, it was just an anonymous debit card system. They invested millions into it and then they had palms with bank, banks didn’t want to do it, [unintelligible 00:04:46] became a problem and eventually they shut down.
My partner basically was able to have that domain name and he had it for years and then once we decided let’s do something together he went through his portfolio of domains and he said, “Yes, I’ve got this on. This is awesome.” That’s how we put it all together. It was kind of getting kids to really understand coding at a young level and I’m thinking, “Man if coding is the future and digital money is the future, then eventually something’s got to give these jobs that are being transitioned out of manufacturing and specific service jobs are going be pushed out for technology.” Throughout that time I started really doing a lot more research. It took me a while to really get in and then I think sometime around probably the next year on March or April of 2017, I just said, “All right, I’m going all in.” Then we were doing a bunch of stuff, started doing a lot more research, talking to a bunch of developers, getting inside the communities on Bitcoin talk, trying to engage with as many people as possible.
It was still difficult because you had two worlds colliding. You had the old-school developers that were doing it since the beginning, they call them the OG, and then you had all these new people that were coming in were very attracted to all the new possibilities. A lot of entrepreneurs, some righteous, some not, and so the developers were very like, “Hey this is our territory kind of thing.” Like, “Listen it’s not that I want to invade it, I just think that there’s an opportunity and we can therefore do stuff together and stuff.” Then it got worse and worse, in other words like I just got more into it doing 16, 17 hours a day, weekends absorbing as much as I could.
Seth: Tell me about TokenPay, it’s a forked Bitcoin right?
Derek: Yes, that’s correct.
Seth: How did you decide on this protocol and what are the advantages of this protocol versus other protocols out there?
Derek: One of the things that we noticed at that time when we looked at coin market cap, there were only a few hundred coins, I think it was like 300, 500 coins listed on my coin market cap. We started seeing throughout 2017 hundreds and hundreds of these coins coming out and we realized that they had all the same common denominator which was they were all Ethereum based and so we started looking at the Ethereum protocol and we realized that it was a nice and new and exciting technology, but it wasn’t as proven as, say, Bitcoin that’s been around for much longer. We started looking to a few developers, we said, “Well, what are the options?” Like, “Well, if you want something quick and fast, then you can do an Ethereum coin. All you have to do is a whitepaper, slap on a website and you’re off to the races. Just have a dream put it on a website and go.”
Which seems very similar to the 1990s, let’s attract as many eyeballs as possible with no revenues, no profits or anything. I said, “Well, that doesn’t make really a lot of sense. That doesn’t seem very superficial. I think I want something that has the best of both worlds. Well, why can’t I have a business plan along with an actual blockchain that actually works, that would actually be useful from day one.” So we started looking and surveying a bunch of other stuff and we thought that a Bitcoin based coin would make sense because it’s been around longer, it’s pretty stable, we liked the stability of it. We knew that the Bitcoin had its flaws. It was a little bit slow, it had proof-of-work which is the mining network that’s needed to process transactions, and we also realized that there was privacy that was needed.
A lot of people link to privacy to nefarious activities and I say, “Well, look what happened to Facebook and what happened to everybody’s privacy are basically destroyed and used to manipulate unfortunately political campaigns” and who knows what else they’ve been able to manipulate. I think they don’t realize that when they sign up for any of these services, they are giving up a lot of Rights. For us, we looked at privacy as something that was important, we thought that that is something that people are starting to realize more how important it is and we thought that that was something we should incorporate into the technology. We got together and we decided that this was a good blockchain to have. It’s not amazingly perfect, but it’s exactly what, I think, the market needs and we can always improve upon it as we see new technologies and new things develop.
Seth: One of the things that definitely got my interest about TPAY is the proof-of-stake model. Maybe a couple things. Explain to me how, maybe for the audience, how proof-of-stake works and then how you’ve been able to implement proof-of-stake using the Bitcoin core as the protocol?
Derek: Proof-of-stake was actually invented by a coin that was specifically just called a pure coin and the model was proof-of-stake is extremely energy efficient. It’s a truly decentralized network because all you really need to do is have your laptop open, it only works for desktops for now and eventually, you can have it from mobile. The whole point is that you don’t really need to have these crazy expensive mining operations and what ended up happening with Bitcoin, I think that many people don’t realize, is that it became centralized. Bitcoin became controlled by mining pools that had extremely expensive infrastructures that would basically control how many transactions they would be able to process faster than all the other mining pools.
That’s why you have all these Bitcoin forks, because their mining pools would just say, “Well, if you’re not going to do it this way then we’re going to go on our own.” That’s why Bitcoin cashes out, bitcoin gold and it could be 10 more as long as the primary one decides to leave. We felt that that was not right. We felt that that’s what destroys the concept of Bitcoin itself. We felt that that was proving that that was one of the major flaws of bitcoin, it became super-centralized.
For us, we said, “Okay, well, the only way to have a truly decentralized system is we have proof-of-stake.” It’s based on an algorithm that’s not just based on how many coins you have, it’s based on how many coins you have plus how fast your computer is, how much processing power you provide to it, the amount of time that you have it open, the actual wallet open, and it basically creates a grading score.
It basically releases coins to computers that actually [unintelligible 00:11:26] the most. You can stake your coins on a Raspberry Pi. We had one of ours who had gone into the community. I’ve been talking to him personally and literally got a Raspberry Pi which is $10 to $15 and was able to link it up to a wallet and started staking.
For us, it’s energy-efficient, it’s a way to decentralize a network and not really have this risk of this massive centralization to fork. A bunch of TPAY is to becoming something just like they were. A lot of reasons, but those are the top three or four reasons why.
Seth: Sure. Let’s talk a little bit about the other key aspect of the protocol which is privacy. How are you achieving privacy, what is the model versus some of the other privacy coins out there such as Monero or Dash or something?
Derek: One of the main things is that we integrate with Tor, some of them do not integrate with Tor. The ring signatures and the dual key [unintelligible 00:12:33] is something that we all have. I think that’s the main key component. We have also zero-knowledge proof. One of them has it and one of them doesn’t. I’m trying to remember exactly which one.
One of the things that we do have that they don’t have is encrypted chat. That’s based off the ECC algorithm. In our wallet, if you have an address and I have an address, we can actually chat and that’s all encrypted and all within the wallet. If you’re making a transaction, you can communicate, we’re doing this, we’re doing that and you can just use that.
People would use telegram and I’m worried about that because all these social media platforms, you’re always exposed to something, but with us, it’s basically in your software in your computer and you’re really just encrypting using the blockchain technology actually being able to encrypt that. That’s something that they don’t have, but we figured that people want to be able to talk when they’re making transactions, so why not.
Seth: I see. The general traceability and the mutability, is there any differences in terms of you can see the history of transactions on a specific wallet address?
Derek: For our Explorer, we only limited to I think a few hundred transactions that you can see on our Explorer like you can’t physically go more and see the beginning, but you can see all the wallet. We have two things you can do. You have public addresses and you have stealth addresses or stealth transactions. The way it works is if you want to have a transaction, let’s say you’re buying something at a retail store and you’re using Bitcoin or TPAY or TokenPay, you’re able to prove that wallet is yours because you have the transaction ID, you have all that stuff. It’s just very normal like Bitcoin. Let’s say you want to send somebody $50 or 50 TPAY and you want to send it in a way that it’s anonymous where they receive it– They know that they got it from you, but nobody else knows that you sent it to them. Why is that important? I think this is something where people start to immediately tie to the nefarious activity and I try to best to understand it.
I don’t agree with nefarious activity. I don’t condone it, I don’t support it, but I think that people have a right to be able to send anybody anything whenever they want and however much they want and it’s up to them to follow the laws if they’re applicable country and they report it. At the end of the day, it’s up to them to have that right to do that. I look at it like you go into a house and you have your house painted and you pay the painter 500 bucks and then the painter gets that 500 bucks and gets a babysitter and the babysitter goes and spends it on many things and that cash flow cycle continues for who know how long. We feel that as things become more and more digital, that right of having the ability to send something like that like cash itself anonymously is gone.
It’s being eliminated and we feel that with crypto, that is just another opportunity. We see it that way. I would never do anything nefarious at that, but I think that’s one of the features that I think a lot of people like.
Seth: Sure, okay. Like any project, reading through your whitepaper and your roadmap, there’s all sort of things on your roadmap and use cases. What do you think are the first big use cases and utilities for the TPAY token that we’ll see in, say, Q2 or Q3 of this year?
Derek: The main thing that we wanted to do was to have an ecosystem that would have the ability for people who own TPAY to be able to consume and store and convert keep it in any way that they want. The first thing we started was let’s have a merchant services application. The merchant services is essentially for a business to be able to collect TokenPay and for consumers to use it.
Now people always ask. If a consumer wants to use TokenPay how can they have access to it which is why we’re listing on exchange. We’re not listing on exchange because we’re trying to make this all about helping traders, on the contrary. We’ve looked at exchanges as the ability to enhance our liquidity with the applications and businesses that we’re trying to build around TokenPay.
It’s all about accessibility. If you have accessibility then we’re able to accomplish these goals. The first one is merchant services. We feel that if you’re merging services, you still need to connect the old world to the new world, so if you’re collecting TPAY, maybe you have vendors that still need to be paying Fiat. That’s okay, we understand that.
We believe that over time, we put potentially less and less vendors and customers whatever may not want to use Fiat for whatever reason and we’re buying this Bank and integrating the bank so there’s a disconnection between the old world and the new world. The debit card system is just another way of being able to dispense some of the crypto that you have into actual real-world applications, but we’ve actually started to go even deeper into that.
We decided to go into building and buying other small little businesses and we actually [unintelligible 00:17:45] build and actually go into that. Some people have mentioned already. We like the gambling sector, we think that’s very opportunistic for us. In fact, we have a lot of connections in that industry only because they really like the privacy features of that.
We were looking at escrow. We bought tokenescrow.com which is basically- we see that more and more transactions are going to be done with escrow. For example, in Miami, there are, I think, 80 something Bitcoin deals that were done in the fourth quarter of 2017. The biggest problem with all of these transactions is that Bitcoin price keeps going up and down. With Escrow, what you can do is you can send somebody Bitcoin, then what you can do is do a conversion of that Bitcoin to dollar. We call this CFD, contract for difference, which is, I know, a very technical term.
Then you can convert it to dollar and then that way you have a walked in at that rate and then when the transaction officially gets done, you can actually unwind it back to Bitcoin and then the owner or the seller of the house receive the dollar value that they wanted to receive of the actual that turns out. We see escrow as an opportunity, we see merchant services, we see the banking to basically help both of those businesses.
Then the other businesses are just use cases to be able to use and consume TokenPay. It’s all about an ecosystem. We don’t want to be the Samsung or the Motorola making the parts. We want to be Apple where we’re building the platform and the apps and invite other people to start putting in other businesses that are willing to use our service or use our technology.
Seth: Absolutely. That’s a key part of your journey and I think something that is a mission for us as well at QUOINE which I think there’s a good match here which is your mission as is ours is to bring mainstream or bring crypto to the mainstream. I think that’s what we’re trying to accomplish as well. When we speak about liquidity, I think that’s going to be a really important development for us and hopefully for our partners such as TokenPay where with our liquid platform, we’re going to be extending the capability for, number one, better liquidity in the nonliquid crypto world by being able to take liquidity in one market and bring it to others. But also being able to have a gateway for Fiat trading versus many tokens that today don’t have that possibility and when you think about ecosystems and development of an ecosystem, guys like us, we’re in crypto 24/7, but the majority- what? 98% of the world’s maybe more doesn’t have any crypto whatsoever. There’s that whole part of the universe that needs to get served.
Derek: I think you’ve mentioned an interesting point and I witnessed in China the ability for farmers in the middle of nowhere use digital payments and they did it through WeChat. WeChat is the Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp of China. They did it very intelligently. WeChat, in the beginning, was just a chat application that you just started texting each other, and I thought that was useless because I had a blackberry and I’m like, “What do I need another application?”
Then all of a sudden they just started doing more and more and more applications into the system. It got to the point where with your phone, because everybody had a phone, you could send each other money through a QR code which is very similar to how Bitcoin was basically built on. I would see people in the village in the middle of nowhere where they would sell food or whatever on the street and you would ask them. “Do you have WeChat” and they’re like, “Yes.” They get their phone and they just go like that. For sure, two years ago there’s no way that they had any banking, that they even- you had to open up a bank account because some of them were uneducated to know, they didn’t have documentation, who knows what that had. They just had a phone, they got, they inserted a SIM card and they started collecting money digitally.
I saw it firsthand in my life that that happened. Africa, I met people in China that were from Africa and because China started going into Africa building infrastructure for Africa, the African started to get exposed to digital payments, it was amazing. Do I think that it can happen? Yes. I think it’s going to take a while.
Crypto is definitely easier, much faster to do it because a lot of them are mobile. It’s an opportunity, but I think the most important thing here is you’re looking at transaction costs that are being reduced for some of these people. If you talk to anybody that [unintelligible 00:22:35] is whether it’s in the Philippines or Mexico they probably take away 10% to 15% of their paycheck on Facebook fees. That’s a big deal for these people. That’s a compound that it starts to–
Seth: That brings up at a key point about the TPAY network. I’m sure as you know, the way Bitcoin has evolved is that as a payment system, it’s become a victim of its own success in a sense, and it’s not really an effective means of transfer value. I don’t want to bury Bitcoin, but how can TPAY be more effective as a way for actually transferring value between two different people as a medium of exchange?
Seth: I think the key point here was the Bitcoin never really had business people behind it to really push it. In the beginning, they eventually did and I think it became- an issue is who has control of what and all that. Like I said, you have the developers that created this thing that were probably very anti-business. If you look at the roots of what bitcoin it’s anarchist, I guess, in a way.
They really were trying to prove something and there was no business concept behind it. With us, we feel that you can have the best of both worlds. You can have a system and a cryptocurrency in place that can do a lot of the amazing benefits that Bitcoin has, but you can also have business and cases that actually will help and improve people, will actually help businesses have a higher chance of success. I think that’s extremely important, and I think that’s the difference, is that now you have a group of people on the team that are going and looking at as that mission.
Takes time. I’m not saying that I’m going to do it in a snap or it’s going to happen in a few months, but with time I think– Look at us, we’ve been partners with Verge, which is a fantastic privacy based coin. They’re proof-of-work, were proof-of-stake, very similar on the privacy features and great community, fantastic community developer run. There were never really business oriented. I actually approached them many times from the beginning.
When we to started, I said, “Listen, you guys have a great community, this is fantastic, maybe we can work together.” We started doing stuff. They did a crowdfund because they signed up with a major, major company. The companies stipulated that they needed this crowdfund in order to use that to help them spend the money on marketing. It was an even exchange thing.
We helped them out. We funded, I think, 85%, 90% of the crowdfunds, but why did we do that? Why did we decide, “Why should we help Verge?” First of all, I think that many blockchain and crypto projects out there are not helping each other. I think they should. I think there should be more partnerships within the community. I see a lot of this fighting and we’re better than this than that because people like that narrative, but I think we need to have more partners in the community because it’s [unintelligible 00:25:49], we’re fighting a certain war and I think we need more partnerships.
I think we can accomplish all of our goals together. Number two, it’s a very large community, it’s 30,000 people– I’m sorry 300,000 people on their Twitter and their telegram, and we knew that if we help them out, they would, in turn, help us out. What I mean by that is those are people that are going to like TokenPay. They will diversify, they say’ll, “I like TokenPay and I like Vereg. Maybe I’ll use both.”
That increases the adoption of TokenPay, but also the adoption of Verge. Why? Because if we have banking products for those people, if we have the ecosystem for those people, and start integrating Verge and TokenPay together, then all of sudden we have a much bigger ecosystem than just us. We have about 18,000 people on Twitter and about 15,000 on telegram, why not merge those communities as best as possible.
We keep on, if there’s other communities and make sense to us, we’ll just keep on adding. These are things that just have to happen, and I think should happen in order for it to be a successful project for us and for the crypto community as a whole.
Seth: Sure. We talked about some of the upcoming use cases for TPAY, how does the protocol handle scalability and transaction processing? Because we know about the limitations of Bitcoin of seven transactions per second. Where are you today with TPAY scalability and where do you think you’re going to get to in, say, the next one year?
Derek: I think we’re at a few hundred to about a few thousand transactions per second. I have to confirm with the actual developer, but I know that in our last interview that we had with the [unintelligible 00:27:34] developer of actual Verge. He was our blockchain auditor, he was able to confirm more or less. We’re not worried about transactions fees right now because we still have to get more and more people using our coin, but there’s definitely a lot of updates and things that we can do that can improve the actual speed of it, it just takes time. We’re still not–
Bitcoin’s pretty decent right now and it’s all ready eight, nine years old. I think we’re okay to still be fine. The answer to your question is that we are okay right now with the amount of transactions per second. We think that that’s not going to be an issue for at least another couple years. During that time period, whenever there is an update or something that we can do to increase speeds or things that we can do eliminate the bottlenecks, we’ll do it. That’s what the development team was for.
Seth: Fantastic. Just to recap here, people, this is why I’m so excited about bringing onto our platform. We’re moving away from proof-of-work which is- I find to be incredibly wasteful and not productive way to use energy and computing resources. We’ve moved to proof-of-stake in a functioning protocol. You solve for limitations that we see in blockchains with transactions, and you’ve achieved a lot of privacy gains.
That’s something that’s really important for everyone, not only in terms of the transactions, but also actually as a means of communication which I didn’t know about. I see a lot of really amazing features here. Let me take it in a slightly different direction. Reading, talking with you the past couple weeks, one of your plans is actually get into the banking world. Why banking and why now?
Seth: I think when I mentioned it before, what I said was banking for us is really connecting the old world to the new world. In theory, the whole point of crypto is you don’t need a bank, that you are your own bank, you store your own coins and your wealth and your value and stuff like that. However, if you want to have adoption, massive adoption, you’re going to need facilitation to be able to make it happen.
What is that? We see the facilitators as an application that basically makes it easy for business, consumers to spend or use the actual coin, which would be TokenPay. That’s merchant services, you need exchanges to provide liquidity so that consumers have the access to it very easily. The third thing is you have banking which is the ability for people to still convert these digital assets or currencies into fiat to pay regular bills, to pay for other things that still have not progressed or gotten through this whole new world that we’re moving into.
In theory, you don’t really need a bank, but we feel that in order to escalate the adoption, to escalate the ability for us to succeed long term that this was the right approach. Counter to that question, I think you may have mentioned that privately before, is why not just partner with a few banks or one bank. The answer to that is that we have seen other competitors that have flipped their eggs in one basket with one company, and then within a day or seconds, somebody can do something wrong and then also they lose their relationship and they’re literally not able to do anything.
We would rather be in a position where we are in Germany which is actually– They’re very influential in the European Union. Obviously, the rules that they say will probably ripple around all of Europe, we know that. If we’re in a country like Germany and we’re close to the government and understanding what’s going on and the regulations, then we’ll be able to adapt and comply to whatever it is that makes sense.
We see that they’re actually a little bit understanding of crypto and I think that’s extremely important. I’d rather have that control knowing that we have the close connection with the regulators talking to them and understanding what we’re trying to do than somebody else having that relationship and literally cutting off the entire infrastructure within a day.
That’s not cool. As a business owner, business mindset, you always want to be able to have as much control as you think it makes sense for the risk of your business. I think that’s important for us.
Seth: Well said, we’re talking in six months after you’ve had to sit through some audits, but that’s our approach for at QUOINE, that we work with regulators, we work with auditors, we work with bankers because the reality is crypto doesn’t live in isolation. Like I said, 98% of the world doesn’t have crypto, so there’s still an analog world that we need to work with and we will. I appreciate your approach of going head forth and I’m definitely interested in seeing how that goes.
Derek: We know it’s not easy. We know it’s not going to be easy. I’m not making it sound like it’s going to be easy. It’s going to be definitely challenging, but I think if we believe the mission is the right mission and it’s the one that makes sense for everybody, our community, what makes sense for the entire crypto community, then we’re going to do what we can, what we think is right. Hopefully, the regulators understand and will follow and comply in the [unintelligible 00:33:00] That’s simple.
Seth: Through your whitepaper, there’s some really exciting things coming up. The iPhone app, further down the road, there’ll be the blue diamond debit card. What are some of the next big things that are on your radar for milestones for the project?
Derek: With the room app, there was a few things that were moved around, some things actually became earlier, some things are going to be a little bit later. The iPhone app is definitely going to be a little bit later. The expectation is for it to be this year. Probably maybe fall or winter of this year. It’s hard because Apple has a lot of changing regulation regards to some of the- how you apply for an app and stuff that you can have for privacy and stuff, but we are in the Google store, the Google App Store, the Android store.
The merchant service is actually being built right now as we speak. We do plan on launching that either an alpha or a beta version sometime in the second quarter which is pretty much on track. The banking actually is put on the roadmap, but it’s third quarter or fourth quarter of this year. Actually we may be able to get the bank earlier because the kind of infrastructure that we deal, that we’re having in place is we’re able to have a piece of this Bank and be able to have influence in how the bank is being run.
We make suggestions to the executives. They obviously want to do this. It’s not like they don’t want to do. We’re able to really start doing stuff with the bank really quickly, which is a lot faster than we expected, but full control of ownership with the bank will take long. They told us it could take six months to a year and a half to get full approval. This is a great way to still have it, but then over time when we officially have it, it could be this year it could be next year, but it won’t matter because we’ll still be it would operate as if we owned it.
Seth: Absolutely. That we’ll help you [unintelligible 00:35:02] value your ecosystem in [unintelligible 00:35:06] That’s really exciting. Derek, thank you so much for taking the time to tell us about TokenPay and everything that’s coming up and about the protocol and then token. We’re incredibly excited. For those out there in telegram lands, we will be list seeing TPAY tomorrow at 1:00 PM JST– Actually, no. I’m corrected.
I think we agreed on 9:00 AM JST tomorrow which I have to check, but I think it’ll be 9:00 AM JST. You can look that up what that’s going to be in your local timezone, and the wallets are actually all ready created. They got created while we started our AMA. You can now deposit your TPAYs into cryptos. That’s www.cryptos.com. We’re really excited and looking forward to seeing the token trading from tomorrow.
Derek: Okay, great. Thank you very much for your time, really appreciate it and looking forward to a lot of future developments and audit meetings.